Liz Dong is two things that usually don’t go together – an undocumented immigrant AND an evangelical Christian. She’s also a immigrant advocate with World Relief, as well as a member of the Evangelical Immigration Table. Having read a piece she wrote for Time Magazine, we invited Liz to stop by the studio and talk about her life story and the issues involving DACA, immigration and the church. Plus, we pause for a moment to remember Hugh Hefner. Okay – that was long enough.
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Long-time listener, patreon supporter. I’d like to offer some feedback I hope you’ll take seriously.
* Christian says that because Liz pays taxes “you are an American citizen…for all intents and purposes other than on a piece of paper.”
No, no she’s not. I’m an immigrant. I’m here on a green card. I’m married to an American and my children are all Americans. But I’m not. I cannot vote. I cannot serve on a jury. i cannot hold most elected offices. Paying taxes and paying into social security does not make one an American citizen. Not only that but just like an American citizen if I ever leave the United States and not give up my green card status I must report and potentially pay on all foreign income I make – just like an American citizen. But I myself am not. i don’t get to hold an American passport. i don’t get to take advantage of American consular services. When I return into this country my wife and kids go through one line and i go through another.
Paying taxes doesn’t make one a citizen. There’s much more to it than that.
* Stop saying “undocumented immigrant”. You just cause people to immediately dismiss you. You’re here illegally. Period. Full stop. I have to pay a rather large fee to renew my green card every eight years or so and guess what – I HAVE TO GET IT RIGHT. Perfectly right. There are no second chances. if I make a mistake I can be separated from my family. I triple, quadruple, and quintuple check any form I send in.
* Liz is indeed in an unfortunate situation….but this is a country of 330+ MILLION people. She says there are roughly 34,000 people in the DACA bucket. Guess what – there were 315,857 H-1B visas approved in 2014 alone. DACA is a drop in the bucket. If you want to talk about abuse and a broken system – tackle the H-1B program. Most of the people I work with (probably 60%) are H-1B visa holders. They’re little more than indentured servants. They’re beholden to their employer. It’s next to impossible to move companies. And they lower the wages for Americans.
Bottom line is – Liz may be in a bad situation…..but so are other immigrants….who are here LEGALLY.
* Liz laments the lack of immigration reform. And yet, outside of reforming the H-1B visa program and severely curtailing there is no need of reform. There are already legal avenues to come to the United States – LEGALLY. What Liz wants is a special amnesty for her unfortunate situation. She appears to want amnesty for anyone who successfully makes it here no matter the means. But no reform can happen without cutting off the supply and insuring that this doesn’t happen again in 20 years. In 1986 the Simpson-Mazzoli Act was passed which granted amnesty for 2.7 million illegal aliens. Another amnesty grant for 578,000 in 1994, one million in 1997, 125,000 from Haiti in 1998, 400,000 in 2000, and then another 900,000 in 2000 again.
So it’s unclear to me exactly what Liz wants. For those of us who are evangelicals and came here and stay here legally – what does she want? Because for my co-workers here on H-1B visas – they find this debate incredibly frustrating. They do everything right and they’re the ones who get screwed.
I feel badly for Liz. I hope Congress can get its act together and grant a simple amnesty and provide a path to citizenship for those currently under DACA. But let’s not hide behind a nonsensical “why are we so afraid of dreamers” nonsense that Christian is peddling. It has nothing to do with fear. The issue is much more complicated than that.
Phil: thank you for the energy and effort that goes into the podcast. I’m a long-time listener. I just listened to the Liz Dong episode, and have some comments from a politcally conservative POV for your consideration. I will continue to listen–and occasionally forward links to your show to my adult family members–despite the frustrations expressed below. It is a good counter-balance to more politically conservative evangelical media that I also consume.
I hope you will have reflected on Jeff’s comments above. Specific to this episode, they reflect the frustration I had to the simplistic, uninformed, and emotive comments from both of your co-hosts regarding immigration law. Unlike Jeff I actually heard cogent prescriptions from Liz about what she wants to happen: Christians should lobby legislators to address unfortunate situations like those she is in through a comprehensive set of changes to federal law. So I’m not frustrated with your guest, as Jeff is. I’m frustrated with your co-hosts. Nowhere was their “insight” tempered with legal facts about DACA, which was ruled illegal by the Fifth Circuit and confirmed to be contrary to the Constitution by the Supreme Court in June of 2016. Skye and Christian did the verbal equivalent of eye-rolling in their anti-illegal immigration comments, as if there were no other Christianly informed points of view outside of theirs–which clearly are actually uninformed.
This reflects my more general frustration with the myopic politcal perspectives on the program, which cause me to figuratively “shout out at the radio” every episode or two. I respect that biblical Christians with good minds and an intent to act with integrity can support liberal political causes, vote for more liberal candidates, and consider my support of Republicans, conservatives, and President Trump to be misguided. I find that Skye and Christian, and to a lesser extent you, rarely afford people like me the same courtesy. While I value hearing different views from committed Christians, I chafe when they do not respect that my veiws are equally informed by Scripture and good judgment.
I encourage you to find conservative Christian politcal guests–and possibly co-hosts–to temper this lack of perspective on your program, I know they exist in the suburbs near Wheaton. I believe it would make for better understanding and a less liberally eccentric program.